Party Rockin' in da Jury!

[Cassie Goldsmith]

AJ voting me out at the final 4 isn't stepping out of my shadow. It is just plunging a huge knife into my back at the last minute. Stepping out of my shadow would've meant she would've had to vote me out a lot earlier and be playing without me in this game for a lot longer. I mean I know she was probably thinking it would help her look more independent....but casting one vote isn't exactly being independent in my opinion. And it definitely wasn't AJ who like switched the vote against me. She was so unsure what she was going to do. That was all Knox and Thiago.

AJ is exactly like Dawn emotionally...however, I don't think she was quite as strong as Dawn strategically.

[ellen]

It's so hard for me to be impartial in this scenario. Thiago hands down played the best game but there's a lot of personal pain over everything which I admit influences my feelings; if that makes me a bitter juror then I guess that's what I am.

I feel like Thiago was ready from the start to try and make a fool out of me. I feel like he wanted to use me as a sheild, like Chilltown did with Janelle in BB7, and he tried to exploit a years long friendship with me to do it.

The thing that hurts the most is not what he tried to do though; I can admit it's great gameplay and would have been genius if it had worked out how I think he had originally wanted it to... but the thing is we all saw through it, at least Cassie and I did, maybe not AJ. He still made it to the end yes, but the constant emotional guilt tripping and the psychological mind games that he resorted to with me when I would catch him in lies... it just feels slimy in the worst possible way.

If he owns his game and is honest about things I may consider voting for him, but it's a stretch. I feel almost insulted that he thinks he can still try and blame his actions on other people and play the victim and then expect me to respect that... it makes me think he has no regard for my intelligence or feelings. Our friendship has really been harmed because of this game because it was just another tool for him. He made me feel like trash and then discarded me like that's what I was.

[mark]

Colleen, I totally agree that you guys were most likely not manipulated or fooled by Thiago. The lines the between the two groups were so solid, and from what I gathered from judgment questioning, there was little socializing going on between the two groups. And when there was it was mostly straight forward. But Thiago did need that element within the 6 of his own.

And Ellen, I'm not excusing your hurt, by any means, but I did see a different side of it throughout the game. I spent the early portions of this game keeping and open line of communication with Thiago, but hesitant to jump into a full on commitment with him for a number or reasons, not the least of which I knew it would be such a transparent pairing. But another reason was he told me from the beginning he could not go against you. Of course there was nothing I had against you, but jumping into that boat would have been giving Thiago all the leverage once again.

But something happened between the two of you after Gloria left, and he confided in me on multiple occasions that the connection between you two was getting blurred. He felt you were closing off. I don't know that you weren't feeling the same about him, but I know that's where he was. I can almost pin point the day he told me, "Ok, I'm done with that side...they've written me off." And that was during the brick challenge. And that is where I feel the factions officially became divided when it was brought out into the open.

So, for what it's worth, Thiago was all in with you from the beginning.

[Snakelena]

Honestly, I'm not getting where Thiago played the best strategic game. His strategy was a relapse of last season except for the fact that he didn't interact as much with people outside of his alliance. Let's be honest we literally spoke maybe 5 times total before I left and each time it was rarely about the game. The only thing he continually tried to do was get personal information from me to perhaps use later on. I don't see that as anything, but exploitation. Additionally, I don't like individuals that once you are out of the game approaching you and buttering you up. That is one of the main reasons as to why I blocked him. One last thing is that honestly he wouldn't still be in the game if it wasn't for the idols. Dependency on idols and the ability to find them doesn't mean that your strategy was far and beyond anyone else's strategy.

[ellen]

Thanks Mark for the perspective! I do believe that he wasn't going to go against me and that his loyalty was to me in the beginning but there were a few red flags that I think slowly strained our relationship.

What made it so hard in the early rounds was that he would actively help project this negative image of me. For instance, in Round 3 I think it was, he made up a fight between the two of us to tell AJ/Cassie about. The story was that I was "being pushy" and "prying" for information and that he'd snapped at me. None of that was true and I didn't really understand why he would spread a lie that made me look so shady. Even if it made people think we weren't together, stuff like that made me look like the bad guy and people started to think that I was playing dirty and trying to influence everything.

And every time we talked in those early days, it would be "so-and-so said this awful thing about you." At a point it was like "okay I appreciate you telling me things, but this is overkill." And then to find out that he was the one instigating people to make a lot of those comments... he was definitely not playing for me like he claims, and I never asked him to or expected him to, but to pretend that he was so selfless and abused by me after doing all of the aforementioned things... that's the kind of emotional manipulation that I'm talking about I guess.

[Cassie Goldsmith]

We can't start saying that some people are only in the end because of idols. That would be like saying that some people only made it so far because of winning individual immunity challenges. Idols affected the game immensely. They affected both sides, and they greatly helped further several individuals. Knox, AJ, and Thiago were all helped greatly with finding idols. So was almost everyone at the merge, actually. And anyone that thinks one side is more "good" or more "evil" than the other is delusional. The fact of the matter is, all of this AJ vs Ellen drama that was perpetuated during the game was simply a red herring. It was a huge distraction, and it fucking worked. I know that for myself, I wasn't 100% on my "side" until Chase was voted out. I wanted to believe that there was still wiggle room and still a chance to make other alliances. Maybe I was being naive. Did AJ make disparaging comments about Ellen? Yes. Did Ellen do so about AJ? I can't say. Maybe she wasn't the first one to do it, but it probably happened later. You can enlighten us with that, Ellen. If Thiago exploited the sides and used it to his advantage, then bravo. That's a mastermind thing to do. Is it shitty? Yes. But we were all the idiots that fell for it and ran around like idiots with the "he said, she said" nonsense. The fact of the matter is, we were all wrong. We were all duped. And we all deserve to be sitting here, where we are.

Did AJ go against Ellen and rally her friends that she had pre-game against her? Yes. Do you respect that strategy? That's up for you to decide.

Did Knox fly under the radar and try to deflect the attention on anyone else? Did he run around and "tell" on his alliance members so he wouldn't have to take the heat or have to confront anyone with an actual serious conversation? Yes. Do you respect that strategy? That's up for you to decide.


Did Thiago play a dirty game? Did he victimize himself sometimes? Hell, I think we all victimized ourselves at one point or another in this game. Henry put it best when he told me, "I don't want to here one more person tell me that this game isn't fun anymore." We all said it. We all felt down. Did Thiago hide behind a mask? But really...could he come in here and be the mastermind he was in season 5? He came in with a target on his back. He was an immediate target. He managed to deflect all of the attention away from himself. Is that a strategy you respect? That's up for you to decide.

[ellen]

I think you're right Cassie. The biggest thing for me will be if he can shed the mopey, 'pushed into playing how he did,' exterior and own his game. It's going to be a really interesting FTC, that's for sure!

[Snakelena]

I wouldn't say that Thiago deflected the attention away from himself. For quite a few weeks he was consistently the vote starting ever since Luca left. Whether you like it or not the idol actually helped shift the power that week and that's a fact. Also, ever since that he was voted against multiple times and was seen for what he was which was a target. Also, I don't see how someone can be a mastermind in the game when he alienated a lot of people. In my opinion not socializing with people regardless of what alliance you are in hurts rather than helps you. Finally, I can flat out say I am not voting him at all and to me his strategy was less than stellar.

[Cassie Goldsmith]

And the same can be said about Ellen's idol and Ben's individual immunity challenge win that sent Wendy packing. So this isn't a one-sided issue.

[Snakelena]

I never once said it was a one sided issue and never alluded to it. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's and just because I don't agree with Thiago doesn't mean I am less than anyone else.

[Cassie Goldsmith]

And I wasn't saying your opinion isn't valid or that you are less than anyone else....nor did I ever even allude to that...

I'm just saying that idols helped both "sides".

[ben]

lol Knox thinks he changed but he's still the same douchey cock he was last season. Last season it was to Liam, this season it was to Selena.

[ben]

Aug 1, 2013 14:47:53 GMT -5 Cassie Goldsmith said:

And I wasn't saying your opinion isn't valid or that you are less than anyone else....nor did I ever even allude to that...

I'm just saying that idols helped both "sides".

The difference is we did more than just rely on idols.

(The round Quincy left, the round Chase left, the round MIchael left, the round Mark left... I'll even say the rounds Gloria and Annie left - we didn't use idols. All were strategically pivotal rounds that helped our "side" gain momentum and numbers.) The pivotal rounds which saved you guys were really only the rounds Selena left and the round Luca left, which were because of idols. So I do think idols helped you guys much more.

[LuCat]

Less than a minute into Knox's opening statement and already found a lie.

Aug 1, 2013 16:58:13 GMT -5 knox said:

OPENING STATEMENT

[/font][/center]

Before I start with my actual like opening statement I want to make a promise... I have played this game honestly, and as far as I can remember I have not lied at all. Likewise, I promise to be honest and keep it real throughout this process. I am happy with the way I played and I don't see any need for anyone to lie at this point in time, as it our chance to prove we played the best game, not that we can lie the best.

Thanks,
Knox.

[/quote]

He lied to me about keeping me on Eduro, so not even sure if I should bother to keep reading.

[colleen]

Aug 1, 2013 14:47:53 GMT -5 Cassie Goldsmith said:

And I wasn't saying your opinion isn't valid or that you are less than anyone else....nor did I ever even allude to that...

I'm just saying that idols helped both "sides".

Idols helped your side completely #fact There is no way you guys woulda made it this far without the million idols in the game. The only time an idol helped our side was when Ellen played it.. Also you, yourself Cassie, had the biggest help from idols lmao